Talk:Parallelogram boards - Revision history

Selinger at 19:42, 24 January 2023

2023-01-24T19:42:22Z

Selinger at 19:41, 24 January 2023

2023-01-24T19:41:28Z

Selinger: /* Order of dimensions */

2023-01-24T17:30:27Z

‎Order of dimensions

Wurfmaul at 06:54, 24 January 2023

2023-01-24T06:54:28Z

Wurfmaul: Created page with "== Order of dimensions == When I created this article, I probably decided that ''n'' in ''n×m'' stands for the number of rows based on the convention for matrices. Now I won..."

2023-01-24T06:48:19Z

Created page with "== Order of dimensions == When I created this article, I probably decided that ''n'' in ''n×m'' stands for the number of rows based on the convention for matrices. Now I won..."

New page

== Order of dimensions ==

When I created this article, I probably decided that ''n'' in ''n×m'' stands for the number of rows based on the convention for matrices. Now I wonder if that was a mistake, since MoHex (and also KataGo) will interpret ''n'' in "boardsize ''n'' ''m''" (which changes the size to ''n×m'' according to [http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~hayward/hex/WhatYouNeedToKnow.pdf Hex<nowiki>:</nowiki> Passing on the Torch]) as the number of columns. The matrix convention also doesn't match our use of board coordinates: "c" in "c2" determines the column.

So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
-I think both conventions are in use. Fortunately, most of the time, the boards are rhombic, so the difference does not matter. I agree that the better convention is to be consistent with the a1 notation, i.e., columns before rows (or files before ranks, as in chess). As another data point: the SGF file format also specifies that SZ[10:11] means 10 columns and 11 rows. This is true for Hex https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/hex.html and also for other games https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html#SZ On the other hand, the &lt;hexboard&gt; format used on this wiki uses the convention `size="nxm"`, where n is rows and m is columns. This is hard to change. [[User:Selinger|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger|talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
+I think both conventions are in use. Fortunately, most of the time, the boards are rhombic, so the difference does not matter. I agree that the better convention is to be consistent with the a1 notation, i.e., columns before rows (or files before ranks, as in chess). As another data point: the SGF file format also specifies that SZ[10:11] means 10 columns and 11 rows. This is true for Hex https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/hex.html and also for other games https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html#SZ On the other hand, the &lt;hexboard&gt; format used on this wiki uses the convention <code>size="nxm"</code>, where n is rows and m is columns. This is difficult to change.
-I have updated the page to switch conventions.
+I have updated the page to switch conventions. [[User:Selinger|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger|talk]]) 19:42, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:41, 24 January 2023
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	So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul\|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul\|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)		So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul\|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul\|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

−	I think both conventions are in use. Fortunately, most of the time, the boards are rhombic, so the difference does not matter. I agree that the better convention is to be consistent with the a1 notation, i.e., columns before rows (or files before ranks, as in chess). As another data point: the SGF file format also specifies that SZ[10:11] means 10 columns and 11 rows. This is true for Hex https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/hex.html and also for other games https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html#SZ [[User:Selinger\|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger\|talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2023 (UTC)	+	I think both conventions are in use. Fortunately, most of the time, the boards are rhombic, so the difference does not matter. I agree that the better convention is to be consistent with the a1 notation, i.e., columns before rows (or files before ranks, as in chess). As another data point: the SGF file format also specifies that SZ[10:11] means 10 columns and 11 rows. This is true for Hex https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/hex.html and also for other games https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html#SZ On the other hand, the <hexboard> format used on this wiki uses the convention `size="nxm"`, where n is rows and m is columns. This is hard to change. [[User:Selinger\|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger\|talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	I have updated the page to switch conventions.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:30, 24 January 2023
Line 4:		Line 4:

	So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul\|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul\|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)		So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul\|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul\|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	I think both conventions are in use. Fortunately, most of the time, the boards are rhombic, so the difference does not matter. I agree that the better convention is to be consistent with the a1 notation, i.e., columns before rows (or files before ranks, as in chess). As another data point: the SGF file format also specifies that SZ[10:11] means 10 columns and 11 rows. This is true for Hex https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/hex.html and also for other games https://www.red-bean.com/sgf/properties.html#SZ [[User:Selinger\|Selinger]] ([[User talk:Selinger\|talk]]) 17:30, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Order of dimensions ==
-When I created this article, I probably decided that ''n'' in ''n×m'' stands for the number of rows based on the convention for matrices. Now I wonder if that was a mistake, since MoHex (and also KataGo) will interpret ''n'' in "boardsize ''n'' ''m''" (which changes the size to ''n×m'' according to [http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~hayward/hex/WhatYouNeedToKnow.pdf Hex<nowiki>:</nowiki> Passing on the Torch]) as the number of columns. The matrix convention also doesn't match our use of board coordinates: "c" in "c2" determines the column.
+When I created the original form of this page, I probably decided that ''n'' in ''n×m'' stands for the number of rows based on the convention for matrices. Now I wonder if that was a mistake, since MoHex (and also KataGo) will interpret ''n'' in "boardsize ''n'' ''m''" (which changes the size to ''n×m'' according to [http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~hayward/hex/WhatYouNeedToKnow.pdf Hex<nowiki>:</nowiki> Passing on the Torch]) as the number of columns. The matrix convention also doesn't match our use of board coordinates: "c" in "c2" determines the column.
 So, rather than attempting to fix [[GTP]] by claiming <code>boardsize ''n'' ''m''</code> changes the board size to ''m×n'', I think changing [[Parallelogram boards]] and other pages that followed its(?) convention might be the better solution. --[[User:Wurfmaul|Wurfmaul]] ([[User talk:Wurfmaul|talk]]) 06:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)